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Re:Re:Is it an error of the grammar book?
I may be misunderstanding what you are saying here, but maybe I can help clarify.
In English, regular common and proper nouns (that is, everything but pronouns like us, you, him, her, it) are made plural by adding -s or -es:
Caroline --> Carolines (meaning two people named Caroline)
And possessive by adding -'s
Caroline --> Caroline's (something belongs to Caroline)
Plural and possessive by adding -s'
Carolines (plural) ---> Carolines' (Something belongs to everyone named Caroline, or to several people named Caroline --not a very useful example -- used more often with a last name, so let's look at that:)
Jones (a person named Jones) ---> Joneses (several, maybe the Jones family)
Joneses (The whole family) ---> Joneses' (belongs to the whole family --say, their house, for example: The Joneses' house--plural and possessive at the same time, so the apostrophe follows the s).
Caroline's does not show plural of any kind, because the apostrophe is before the s. This means one Caroline with a possession. The English Language is very consistent about distinguishing from possession and plural. Plurals have s before the apostrophe, and if there's no apostrophe, it's not possessive.
It can get confusing with pronouns, because the rule is just the opposite. Pronouns never use apostrophes: my, his, her, its, your, my, their. And the possessive pronoun "its", is naturally confused often with "it's," which is not a possessive at all, but a contraction of "it is."
Your suggestion of saying: She is a good friend of Mark and Caroline is excellent, because it is always correct, and will save you face if you get confused about the rules.
Nonetheless, the suggestion I gave in my previous message on this topic is a good practice, because native speakers will very often use the other forms, and you'll want to be able translate them correctly.
Mark and Caroline's house (belonging to both gets only one -'s)
Mark's and Caroline's toothbrushes (separate possessions get separate -'s)
Follow this rule and you'll get it right every time.
Mark Springer
English Major and composition instructor
California State University, Sacramento
Re:Is it an error of the grammar book? Kasia
I don't think it is an error. But I think you should say...She is a good friend of Mark and Caroline. Because when you have Caroline's with the apostrophe that means that there is more than one object..ex:more than one Caroline...or it is also used when you are talking about her possession. ex: Caroline's book. I hope that helped.
This is a reply to message # 48509
Language pair: Spanish; English
Category: Vocabulary/Translations
Post date: April 3, 2005
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Language pair: Spanish; English
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Mark S.
April 4, 2005
# Msgs: 3
Latest: April 4, 2005
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Alida
Hello, I would like to say everyday conversation, such as "How are you this morning" in Italian. I speak English.
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Language pair: Italian; English
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Alida A.
April 1, 2005
# Msgs: 1
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Re:Is it an error of the grammar book?
> Reply to message # 48509
> Is it an error of the grammar book? Laura Gil
> I found this sentence in a grammar book, could you tell me if > > > this is a mistake?
> She is a good friend of Mark and Caroline's.
> Thanks!
This is correct. What makes you think it is a mistake? How would you have said it differently?
There are two ways of doing possessive for plural possessors. Either the two or more share some possession in common, as Mark and Caroline share their girlfriend, or there are multiple objects and each possessor has their own, in which case you have to put both owners in the possessive:
She brought Mark's and Caroline's toothbrushes to them.
Here, since Mark and Caroline each have their own toothbrush, we say it a little differently.
Likewise, you could say, "David and Leslie were good friends of Mark's and Caroline's," if David is Mark's friend and Leslie is Caroline's friend.
Does that help? Let me know if I've missed your point.
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Language pair: Spanish; English
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Mark S.
March 31, 2005
# Msgs: 3
Latest: April 4, 2005
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Re:Re:Re: Soaps
"I love my family". That's very cool.
Actually, I would never have called "Friends" a soap opera. I would call that a "Sitcom", which is slang for a "Situation Comedy," or a comedy show based on some particular kind of living or working situation.
Mark
Sacramento, cA
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Language pair: English; Chinese, Mandarin
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Mark S.
March 30, 2005
# Msgs: 7
Latest: April 5, 2005
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Is it an error of the grammar book?
I found this sentence in a grammar book, could you tell me if this is a mistake?
She is a good friend of Mark and Caroline's.
Thanks!
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Language pair: Spanish; English
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Laura G.
March 30, 2005
# Msgs: 3
Latest: April 4, 2005
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Re:please help
You can get him to help you by pointing to things and saying,
Juh! Shr! shunmuh? (zhe4 shi4 shen2me -- what is this?). Remembeer that Chinese is a tonal language so the tone of voice you use is very important. If your voice doesn't come down on the first two words and then go up on the last one, you may end up saying something very different from what you intended.
Be sure to pay attention to the tones he uses when he tells you the words for things, and remember to use them when you say the names also.
Have fun!
Mark Springer
Sacramento, CA USA
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Language pair: Chinese, other; English
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Mark S.
March 29, 2005
# Msgs: 1
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Re: Soaps
Yes, the soap operas are engaging, and it's easy to get used to watching them.
I have used Soap operas in Spanish as well as in Mandarin to develop my conversational skills as well.
Which soaps do you enjoy watching?
Recently, I found DVD disks of my favorite one in English, an old spoof of soap operas called, "Soap," which was really good. They only have three of the five seasons available just now, but they're very inexpensive for a collection of TV eposodes, and I really had fun watching them again after so many years -- the series was on TV way back in the 70's and early 80's.
Enjoy,
Mark,
Sacamento, USA
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Language pair: English; Chinese, Mandarin
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Mark S.
March 28, 2005
# Msgs: 7
Latest: April 5, 2005
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Re:Re:Hilfe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Danke Schon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I liebe Deutch.
Wo sie leben? Auf Deutchland? Die Schweiz? Osterriech?
Well, thank you soooooooooo much.
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Language pair: English; German
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Colin B.
March 28, 2005
# Msgs: 2
Latest: March 28, 2005
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Re:Re:do you like chinese?
aloha!! I am a taiwanese outcasted on the island of maui, hawaii. I speak both chinese n' english. If ya r interested in beach n' nature stuffs, then we might have someting to chat about in both languages. I just want to know more about what's going on outside of my little island paradise...ciao
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Language pair: Chinese, Mandarin; English
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Outcast
March 27, 2005
# Msgs: 1
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tones
Yes, yours is an elegent, expressive language. Whenever I hear people speaking it, I feel joy, like returning to a beautiful place where one has fond memories.
Thank you for your comment, that the tones are not used in Chinese to express emotions. I probably should have clarified that in my message.
The problem is, for an English speaker who has no experience with a tonal language, we have no way to understand the tones or what they are supposed to sound like. If I just say, "high tone," "rising tone," "low falling and rising tone," and "falling tone," especially in an e-mail where I cannot demonstrate what I'm talking about, this information is very vague, and really doesn't mean very much to an English speaker--at least, it never would have to me.
However, because we often use tone of voice in our language to convey shades of meaning, as you gathered from my message, these kinds of emotional tones we use in English can be helpful to an English speaker in trying to understand what the tones sound like. They certainly were a great help to my classmates and myself when we were studying Mandarin.
And what you say about stress is a very good point, and works in English, too. I remember an English teacher explaining the same thing about the question, "Did John tell you that?" which can have five different meanings in the same manner as your sentence, "Ta2 shi5 wo4 ma2ma" (I'm guessing that that is what you meant by "ËýÊÇÎÒµÄÂèÂè." Chinese characters don't always appeare correctly here when you paste them in from other programs. The only reliable method I know of is to use the translators offered here).
Wo3 hen3 gao1xing4 zai4 kan4 ni3,
Make
Sacramento, CA USA
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Language pair: English; Chinese, Mandarin
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Mark S.
March 27, 2005
# Msgs: 7
Latest: April 5, 2005
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